Difference between revisions of "We need a place"

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We have a place!  Makers Local 256 opened its first not-in-someone's-apartment place in April of 2008.
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= Old We Need a Place Pages =
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An archive of the places we looked at and the things we brainstormed can be found at [[We need a place 2008]].
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* [[We need a place 3.0]]
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)
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* [[We need a place 2008]]
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Our place is currently 1000sqft, and while it's worked so far, it's evident that a larger place would be ideal.
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* [[We need a place/Library | Library Opportunities]]
  
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= 2017 =
 +
Publicity committee is putting together a small portfolio of locations to use as examples in a fund raiser for property owned by the organization.
  
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We need a place where we can go and work on these projects in an environment that stimulates creativity and motivation.
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* Location 1:  Jordan Lane next to Tim's Cajun Kitchen
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The shop will provide a work area, resources, and knowledge to help people with their projects.
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** Pictures: https://plus.google.com/+JeffCotten/posts/HoFyskaFqxY
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** Realtor Notes: 
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<blockquote>
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Jeff,
  
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=We Need (Are Planning) to Move=
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I spoke with the listing agent when I dropped off the keys on Friday. I was told that the owner of the building got the building as part of a business deal and has never used the space himself. The previous use that the agent was aware of was for an auto shop. He did mention that the price is not firm, but they do feel that it is priced appropriately. There had been a previous offer from an investor on the property that was very low and the owner did not accept it. I do believe though that if we get some estimates of repairs needed to get the property up to code we would have a better leg to stand on to negotiate price should the estimates come back high.
  
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Here's a page for pre-move planning:  [[We Need to Move]]
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I have attached a few comps for buildings sold on Jordan Lane over the past few years. Unfortunately, they are all restaurants so it isn't exactly comparing apples to apples.
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</blockquote>
  
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=Scouting Options=
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* Location 2: 1245 Putman Dr NW
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** 5000 sqft, $150k, Was built without city permits, any updates would be closely watched by the city
 +
** Realtor:  Jeff reaching out to realtor to arrange a tour so we can get pictures
  
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* Location 3: 4910 Commercial Drive.
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** 5000 sqft, $195k
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** Agent says that it's divided up into several small rooms like office spaces, and that we'd have to tear out a lot of walls to make it fit our needs.
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** Pictures: https://plus.google.com/collection/QF3JpB
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** [[File:4910_Comm_Dr_-_Property_Boundaries.pdf]]
  
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= About =
  
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{| {{table}} border="1"
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I've overheard and participated with a couple of members about potentially purchasing the place we have now, moving, or building out a make shop of our design.  The primary concern seems to be the organization throwing money in a hole on rent.  Since this is on people's minds, I'd like to start gathering information on what our options are, and I also wanted to us to all be on the same page so that people don't flip their shit and start asking "ARE WE MOVING?!!"
  
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|-
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I'll throw it up on the wiki later, but what people seem to be interested in finding out follows:
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! style="background:#efefef;" | Location Name
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* For the equivalent of our rent, what kind of mortgage will the bank (Redstone) give us?
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! style="background:#efefef;" | Address
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* Is our landlord willing to sell us the property we're currently leasing?  If so, what post-purchase improvements would it take to make it worth the purchase?
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! style="background:#efefef;" | Size
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* What property is for sale in Huntsville that meets our needs and budget?
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! style="background:#efefef;" | Asking Price
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* Is it feasible for us to build a place?
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! style="background:#efefef;" | Operating Costs
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! style="background:#efefef;" | Advantages
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! style="background:#efefef;" | Disadvantages
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! style="background:#efefef;" | Status
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! style="background:#efefef;" | POC
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|-
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| Old West Elementary School
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|
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| ~5000 sqft
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| $875 / mo
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| $TBD / mo, he will use individual meters.
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| More space than we currently have.  The space is more accessible (no stairs to a lofted area).  The space has heating and cooling options that we can turn on\off at our discretion.  Separate building for power tool work.  Internet will be shared with the entire building (likely will make it cheaper)
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| The seperate building needs to have a garage door installed.  This may be a cost the membership will incur.  No time frame established on when we can begin demolition \ installation (probably immediately, but need to ask).  Internet will be shared with entire building (less control over infrastructure, unless we're the ones put in charge of infrastructure, which may be likely).  Late night outdoor security concerns (proposed solution?). With the ability to turn on air and heat comes opportunity for higher maintenance costs. 
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| N/A. 
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| Mog
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|-
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| Old Location
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| 203 Brown St
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| 2000 sqft
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| $1000 / mo
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| $270 / mo
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| Already Established. Bay Door.  Proximity to downtown makes it easy to find.  Close to Police station and Fire Station.
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| No A/C
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| N/A
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| Chair
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|-
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| 5 Points Workshop - NEW SHOP
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| [http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=414+Stevens+Ave,+Huntsville,+AL+35801&aq=&sll=34.744813,-86.579386&sspn=0.012448,0.01929&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=414+Stevens+Ave+NE,+Huntsville,+Alabama+35801&t=h&z=16 414 Stevens Ave, Huntsville, AL 35801] (Yellowish Warehouse on the corner of Schiffmann and Stevens)
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| Shop including the loft is 4012 sqft (costing $850/mo).  1st Floor is 2660 sqft, Loft is 1352 sqft.
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| $850.00 / mo
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| $270 / mo (See [[Field_Trips/5_Points_Workshop#Financial_Analysis | Financial Analysis]] for details.)
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| There is A/C and heat in the office.  There is a small kitchen area.  2 bathrooms.  There is also a sink in the loft.  One of the bathrooms has a shower. 
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| There is no A/C/ heating unit nor insulation in the actual warehouse area.  The driveway needs repaving and the loft needs repair.
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| Designated as new shop since vote to move passed unanimously on 4/19/11. Field Trip Notes: [[Field_Trips/5_Points_Workshop]]
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| Chair
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|-
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| "Four Garages"
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| 485 Dan Tibbs Road
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| 4000 sqft
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| $1000 / mo (w/ 3 year contract)
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| (Need to Ask POC)
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| Air Conditioning, Multiple Compartments, 4000 sqft
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| Location not as central. 
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| Have called Jeremy for a tour, waiting to hear back from him now.  --[[User:Omegix|Omegix]] 14:18, 20 July 2010 (CDT)
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| Jeremy Pope, CCIM, SIOR
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Graham & Company, LLC
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200 Westside Square Suite 800
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Huntsville, AL 35801
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TEL 256.382.9010 | FAX 256.382.9011
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|-
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| Lincoln Mill
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| 1300 Meridian St
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Huntsville, AL 35801
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| 1400sqft + access to basement for storage, expansion into the Life Cycles area, access to Conference Room, and two air conditioned social areas.
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| $1200 / mo
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| $0 (utilities included)
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| Location is in a community building, sort of like Flying Monkey.  Community includes a future coffee shop, brewery, restaurant, life-cycles.  Includes air conditioning.  Space has a bay door.
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| Space would need to be insulated prior to moving in.  Labor needed, materials provided.
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| Tour Aug 16th @ 5:30: [[Field Trips/Lincoln Mill]]
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|
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Wayne Sisco
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wayne@ecospace.biz
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770-318-8365
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www.lincoln-mills.com
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Andrew Rogers
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= Facility Desires =
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256-508-7610
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What would you want in a new facility?
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|-
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* More usable space (ex:  the space upstairs is nice, but not as utilized as downstairs)
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| <s>"Fudgey Nut Warehouse complex"</s>
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* Large Bay Door
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| Bob Wallace and Mirabeau
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* Air conditioned and Heated "Main" room for socializing, laptop computer programming, and classes
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|
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* Air conditioned and Heated room for electronic soldering, embedded development, CAD
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| $1100 / mo
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* Air conditioned and Heated room for crafting (vinyl cutter, sewing, knitting, jewelry making)
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|
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* 24/7 Access for all members
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| Large warehouse area.  Bay Door.  A/C Office area.
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* Internet ready
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| No A/C in warehouse area.
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* Kitchen
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| Waiting for more details from Anthony
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* Location Central to Huntsville
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| TBD
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* Car Lift
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|-
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* 2 Phase Power
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|}
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** 3 Phase Power would be nice
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* Outdoor areas usable for events like the pig roast
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* Multiple year lease options
  
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= Funding Notes =
 +
== StateFarm Notes ==
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* According to James Harris State farm, it would be prudent to budget 3-4 times what we are currently paying on our rental insurance agreement.  That new number is:  $400 x 4 = $1600 / year
  
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[[We need a place\Old Scouting Options | Old Scouting Options]]
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== Desiree Notes ==
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[[Category:Makeshop Bootstrap]]
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* The Southern Development Council may have a 10-15% down program for owner occupied property: http://sdcinc.org/
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[[Category:Archives]]
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** Jeff contacted Southern Development Council and they only lend to for-profit corporations.
 +
 
 +
* Desiree said there's a chance that someone wanting to be rid of property might sell for less than what it's worth to take the tax write-off.
 +
 
 +
== Bancorp South Notes ==
 +
* Darlina Bray at BancorpSouth. Her number is 256-564-8441.  Recommended by Desiree Palmer, real estate.
 +
** Commercial investors are not allowed to finance more than 80%, unless we are getting a good deal where we are purchasing the property for less than what it's worth.  In that situation They can finance more, and we may only have to come up with 10%.  We could ask our real estate agent to keep an eye out for properties where the seller might be open donating part of the value of the building as a tax write off.
 +
** 20 Years, 5-Years Fixed @ 4.25% APR, after that APR recalculated.
 +
** 15 Years @ 4.9% APR
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** 10 Years @ 3.996% APR
 +
 
 +
=== Example Purchases ===
 +
==== 20 Years, 4.25% APR ====
 +
* Property Listing: $200,000 \ Property Value: $200,000
 +
** Downpayment (20%): $40,000
 +
** Monthly Payment (4.25%): $991
 +
* Property Listing: $200,000 \ Property Value: $200,000
 +
** Downpayment (21.5%): $43,000
 +
** Monthly Payment (4.25%): $972
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==== 20 Years, 4.25% APR, $1600 / Year Insurance Payments ====
 +
Current insurance is $400 / year.  Proposed insurance is $1600 / year.  That's a difference of $1200 more a year.
 +
$1200 / year = $100 more a month.  To have our current rent budget ($975) be our future mortgage + insurance payment, the following down payment
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would be necessary:
 +
 
 +
* Property Listing: $200,000 \ Property Value: $200,000
 +
** Downpayment (29.5%): $59,000
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** Monthly Payment (4.25%): $873
 +
 
 +
== Redstone Notes ==
 +
* Redstone will loan up to 75% of the Appraised Value of the Property
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** We will need to either pay the remainder (the other 25%) or set up an external loan with the land owner for the difference.
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* Redstone can Finance up to $150K for a total value of $200K real estate value (within the bounds of setting up a $900.00 monthly mortgage payment on a 20 year Loan.
 +
** Redstone would be willing to loan up to $250K, but the monthly payment would be decidedly higher
 +
* Flood Insurance and Easement issues were mentioned for 414 Stevens Ave, but were deemed "probably trivial".
 +
=== Example Purchases ===
 +
Based on Makers Local 256 having to front 25% of the cost of sale.
 +
* Property Value:  $120,000
 +
** Downpayment:  $30,000
 +
* Property Value:  $150,000
 +
** Downpayment: $37,500
 +
* Property Value:  $200,000
 +
** Downpayment: $50,000
 +
 
 +
= Other Considerations =
 +
* Remember that Insurance will change also we currently have a modified renters insurance if we have to insure a building and it contents this will also change the dynamic, see what annual city taxes would be. ~Preaux
 +
 
 +
* If we were to purchase a place, we would need to come up with the downpayment.  This downpayment should not cut into our unofficial emergency fund.
 +
** Typical 2014 Monthly Expense:  ~$1300
 +
** Non-Treasurer Estimated 2014 Emergency Fund:  (Monthly * 3) = ~$4000
 +
*** Does not factor in one time yearly fees such as insurance
 +
* The city of Huntsville has leased property to non-profits before.  It's possible that while they may not have property they can sell us, they may be able to lease property to us for very low rates (like $1/year low).  Jeff has contacted someone on the Huntsville Planning Commission and they are looking into it for us.
 +
** Currently there is not much inventory, but in 2016 they expect to have more with schools closing.  [[User:Omegix|Omegix]] ([[User talk:Omegix|talk]]) 10:28, 11 March 2014 (CDT)
 +
*** "Hello, Space right now would be tough but 2016 when we have possession of the schools might be easier. If something shakes loose between now and then I will let you know. Thanks Jeff Easter" --[[User:Omegix|Omegix]] ([[User talk:Omegix|talk]]) 12:24, 24 March 2014 (CDT)
 +
 
 +
= Contacts =
 +
* Jed Park - Park properties
 +
** 256-426-3777
 +
** jedpark66@gmail.com
 +
 
 +
* Bart Smith - Graham Company
 +
** 256-527-4526
 +
** barts@grahamcompany.com
 +
 
 +
* John Blue - John Blue Realty
 +
** 256-705-5475
 +
** www.johnbluerealty.com
 +
** john.d.blue@johnbluerealty.com
 +
 
 +
* Associate: Tamara French
 +
** 256-679-3612
 +
** tamara.french@johnbluerealty.com

Latest revision as of 15:06, 2 March 2017

Old We Need a Place Pages

2017

Publicity committee is putting together a small portfolio of locations to use as examples in a fund raiser for property owned by the organization.

Jeff,

I spoke with the listing agent when I dropped off the keys on Friday. I was told that the owner of the building got the building as part of a business deal and has never used the space himself. The previous use that the agent was aware of was for an auto shop. He did mention that the price is not firm, but they do feel that it is priced appropriately. There had been a previous offer from an investor on the property that was very low and the owner did not accept it. I do believe though that if we get some estimates of repairs needed to get the property up to code we would have a better leg to stand on to negotiate price should the estimates come back high.

I have attached a few comps for buildings sold on Jordan Lane over the past few years. Unfortunately, they are all restaurants so it isn't exactly comparing apples to apples.

  • Location 2: 1245 Putman Dr NW
    • 5000 sqft, $150k, Was built without city permits, any updates would be closely watched by the city
    • Realtor: Jeff reaching out to realtor to arrange a tour so we can get pictures

About

I've overheard and participated with a couple of members about potentially purchasing the place we have now, moving, or building out a make shop of our design. The primary concern seems to be the organization throwing money in a hole on rent. Since this is on people's minds, I'd like to start gathering information on what our options are, and I also wanted to us to all be on the same page so that people don't flip their shit and start asking "ARE WE MOVING?!!"

I'll throw it up on the wiki later, but what people seem to be interested in finding out follows:

  • For the equivalent of our rent, what kind of mortgage will the bank (Redstone) give us?
  • Is our landlord willing to sell us the property we're currently leasing? If so, what post-purchase improvements would it take to make it worth the purchase?
  • What property is for sale in Huntsville that meets our needs and budget?
  • Is it feasible for us to build a place?

Facility Desires

What would you want in a new facility?

  • More usable space (ex: the space upstairs is nice, but not as utilized as downstairs)
  • Large Bay Door
  • Air conditioned and Heated "Main" room for socializing, laptop computer programming, and classes
  • Air conditioned and Heated room for electronic soldering, embedded development, CAD
  • Air conditioned and Heated room for crafting (vinyl cutter, sewing, knitting, jewelry making)
  • 24/7 Access for all members
  • Internet ready
  • Kitchen
  • Location Central to Huntsville
  • Car Lift
  • 2 Phase Power
    • 3 Phase Power would be nice
  • Outdoor areas usable for events like the pig roast
  • Multiple year lease options

Funding Notes

StateFarm Notes

  • According to James Harris State farm, it would be prudent to budget 3-4 times what we are currently paying on our rental insurance agreement. That new number is: $400 x 4 = $1600 / year

Desiree Notes

  • The Southern Development Council may have a 10-15% down program for owner occupied property: http://sdcinc.org/
    • Jeff contacted Southern Development Council and they only lend to for-profit corporations.
  • Desiree said there's a chance that someone wanting to be rid of property might sell for less than what it's worth to take the tax write-off.

Bancorp South Notes

  • Darlina Bray at BancorpSouth. Her number is 256-564-8441. Recommended by Desiree Palmer, real estate.
    • Commercial investors are not allowed to finance more than 80%, unless we are getting a good deal where we are purchasing the property for less than what it's worth. In that situation They can finance more, and we may only have to come up with 10%. We could ask our real estate agent to keep an eye out for properties where the seller might be open donating part of the value of the building as a tax write off.
    • 20 Years, 5-Years Fixed @ 4.25% APR, after that APR recalculated.
    • 15 Years @ 4.9% APR
    • 10 Years @ 3.996% APR

Example Purchases

20 Years, 4.25% APR

  • Property Listing: $200,000 \ Property Value: $200,000
    • Downpayment (20%): $40,000
    • Monthly Payment (4.25%): $991
  • Property Listing: $200,000 \ Property Value: $200,000
    • Downpayment (21.5%): $43,000
    • Monthly Payment (4.25%): $972

20 Years, 4.25% APR, $1600 / Year Insurance Payments

Current insurance is $400 / year. Proposed insurance is $1600 / year. That's a difference of $1200 more a year. $1200 / year = $100 more a month. To have our current rent budget ($975) be our future mortgage + insurance payment, the following down payment would be necessary:

  • Property Listing: $200,000 \ Property Value: $200,000
    • Downpayment (29.5%): $59,000
    • Monthly Payment (4.25%): $873

Redstone Notes

  • Redstone will loan up to 75% of the Appraised Value of the Property
    • We will need to either pay the remainder (the other 25%) or set up an external loan with the land owner for the difference.
  • Redstone can Finance up to $150K for a total value of $200K real estate value (within the bounds of setting up a $900.00 monthly mortgage payment on a 20 year Loan.
    • Redstone would be willing to loan up to $250K, but the monthly payment would be decidedly higher
  • Flood Insurance and Easement issues were mentioned for 414 Stevens Ave, but were deemed "probably trivial".

Example Purchases

Based on Makers Local 256 having to front 25% of the cost of sale.

  • Property Value: $120,000
    • Downpayment: $30,000
  • Property Value: $150,000
    • Downpayment: $37,500
  • Property Value: $200,000
    • Downpayment: $50,000

Other Considerations

  • Remember that Insurance will change also we currently have a modified renters insurance if we have to insure a building and it contents this will also change the dynamic, see what annual city taxes would be. ~Preaux
  • If we were to purchase a place, we would need to come up with the downpayment. This downpayment should not cut into our unofficial emergency fund.
    • Typical 2014 Monthly Expense: ~$1300
    • Non-Treasurer Estimated 2014 Emergency Fund: (Monthly * 3) = ~$4000
      • Does not factor in one time yearly fees such as insurance
  • The city of Huntsville has leased property to non-profits before. It's possible that while they may not have property they can sell us, they may be able to lease property to us for very low rates (like $1/year low). Jeff has contacted someone on the Huntsville Planning Commission and they are looking into it for us.
    • Currently there is not much inventory, but in 2016 they expect to have more with schools closing. Omegix (talk) 10:28, 11 March 2014 (CDT)
      • "Hello, Space right now would be tough but 2016 when we have possession of the schools might be easier. If something shakes loose between now and then I will let you know. Thanks Jeff Easter" --Omegix (talk) 12:24, 24 March 2014 (CDT)

Contacts

  • Jed Park - Park properties
    • 256-426-3777
    • jedpark66@gmail.com
  • Bart Smith - Graham Company
    • 256-527-4526
    • barts@grahamcompany.com
  • John Blue - John Blue Realty
    • 256-705-5475
    • www.johnbluerealty.com
    • john.d.blue@johnbluerealty.com
  • Associate: Tamara French
    • 256-679-3612
    • tamara.french@johnbluerealty.com
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